The Good & Bad Aspects of "The Invasion" in 2001

[Hammy]

I've recently for my Birthday and Christmas got some Tagged Classics DVDs from 2001 which has led me to reliving the Invasion Angle and look back, there were some good aspects but so much is frustrating.

If you look to 2002 & 2003 Vince brought in Hogan, Nash, Hall, Goldberg, Flair, Steiner and Bischoff.  Yet for the Invasion Storyline, the only top line guys he could manage for WCW were Booker T and Diamond Dallas Page, its so frustrating, I know there were issues with the Time Warner contracts but I found it hard to believe if he hadn't been so stubborn a deal could not have been struck with these talents, this forced them to bring in ECW as a part of the storyline.

Rob Van Dam was one of the few "Invaders" who was treated fairly well throughout the angle and he was tremendously over, the fans were crazy for him and his matches with Jeff Hardy were great, I think without a doubt he was the shining light of the Alliance. 

It didn't take long before it stopped being WCW/ECW vs. WWE and just became Vince vs. Shane.  The name "The Alliance" was just another way to wipe out the name of WCW which got used less and less on WWE programming.

If they'd of forked out the money Bischoff could have led a credible squad rather than having to have so many current WWE guys jump ship to make up the numbers in the storyline.

If you look to the nWo success (which last for a solid 2 years), this storyline booked properly could have lasted for a similiar amount of time rather than vanishing in a few months.

Looking to positives, I thought DDP's introduction was really good, having him feud with Undertaker was a positive sign, what happened though was at virtually every opportunity Undertaker crushed him and he became a midcarder in no time.

Despite the failed aspect of pushing WCW's stars the angle produced a lot of good matches, the initial Invasion Main Event, Jeff Hardy vs. RVD **** match and Ladder match.  The feud ending Survivor Series Main Event was a cracker as well.  I also liked the appearance of ECW into the feud, unfortunately they weren't pushed strongly, mainly because their "Main Eventers" Tazz, Raven and Justin Credible had been midcarders on WWE Programming.

How would you have booked it?  What would you have done differently?

Personally I'd of liked a 3 Way feud, rather than having ECW align with WCW.  WWE should have got the cheque book out and signed the right talents.  The build to Wrestlemania could have been great.  We got Hogan vs. Rock that year but we could also have had Austin vs. Goldberg, The Outsiders vs. The Brothers of Destruction and so on...

[More Cowbell]

Vince was all about showing his power and money in buying out WCW. COmpetition created more money and higher ratings, He should of just Bought WCW and kept it running seperate instead of Raw and SD. He could of had a solid background with a rich storied history. He could of made it an equal to push WWE and WCW in a longterm fued. Think of it, instead of jobbing out the WCW talent he could of reaped in all the old fans and created new ones pushing the WCW guys. He didnt want anything to be on the same level as his WWF and RAW. They should of kept WCW seperate and only on raqre occations share talent like the BIG PPVs. WCW and WWF were going head to head for years and Vince its opportunity. WCW had alot of younger and midcard talent he could of pushed, but people like Jeff Jarrett pissed off Vince and thats why the invasion was led by DDP and Booker T, So much potential wasted, then in 2002 when he tried and rehashed NWO for what would of been the 3rd time it just seemed so boring and unoriginal just like DX seems now.

[Gnrfan]

I think Hammy hit the nail on the head. It should of been a 3 way thing. First Bischoff (maybe with shane too) leading the WCW invasion saying they want to win their company back from Vince as they don't want to work for him.... then just when that got stale.... announce that Vince has bought out ECW (without Heyman's knowledge) so ECW enters the fray looking for the same thing.

Initaillay ECW & WCW want to the same thing so have a mini alliance (to help with the numbers) but then Vince sees whats happening and states that only one of WCW or ECW will get their show back, but only if they can defeat "The Greatest Power In Wrestling" WWE.

If WCW had guys like Flair, Hogan, DDP, Sting, Booker T, Goldberg, Outsiders, Eddie, Rey, Billy Kidman & He who we do not speak.

vs ECW with the likes of Rhino, RVD, Tajiri, Jerry Lynn, Dreamer, Mick Foley, Taz, Sabu, Raven, Sandman, Mike Awesome, Kid Kash, Impact Players & The Dudleys

and then you had WWE with Austin, Rock, DX, Bros of Destruction, Jericho, Angle, Edge & The Hardys

Over a sustained period of time Vince could hang the "you'll get your show back" over everyone and you could deal with all the internal issues of each team i.e. Austin hating Vince but having to work together for WWE or Rhino & RVD rivalry or Goldberg vs Old nWo.

Seeing as Vince had all the old shows he could come out and use the footage to try and cause tension in the teams. Like he could say look when Raven tied dreamer up and beat him with a chair or Look when Hogan made Nash lie down for the pin.

You could also have some of the guys who have represented more than one brand come under scrutiny for their loyalty. Guys like Big Show, Taz, Dudleys even guys like Austin & Hogan could all be part of the mind games.

As well as all the great potential matches there would be some fantastic angles and mic work.

The more i think about it the more they definatly dropped the ball big time.

[Izzy]

The Invasion was awful

I imagine like the majority of WWF fans in 2001 I had barely watched WCW ever

I didnt know who any of these guys were - DDP, who? The guys I did know - Sting, Hogan, NWO - they werent there

So we got a bunch of midcarders who were never promoted in anyway appear - why would we have cared about them? From day one WCW = Jobber, so u started out not caring about them and by the end u actually wanted them buried

I remember being horrified when they turned the last hour of RAW over to NITRO - I couldnt believe it, why were they wasting time on this inferior product?

Then we had WCW fighting for ''control'' - but it was never explained how they could possibly get it, or what they'd do if they had it!

Feud was just pointless - why the hell did it matter if Booker T or the Rock held the WCW title?

Then they must have realised the whole thing was a mess so they started unifying titles - which only made things worse, every WCW title vanished (conveniently)

It was a total mess from start to finish - Vince had no real idea what to do and certainly wasnt intrested in WCW stars, the Invasion angle seemed more like a transitional period while WWF re-adjusted - a period that ended with WWE

The fued was bad - and with it ending with Ric Flair and WWE it has to be the most depressing chapter i can remember

[BlowUpYourVideo]

I was only 10/11 at the time, so I don't have as bad memories about the Invasion as others do (from what I can remember). I wasn't sitting there thinking "They're not handling this angle well at all" or whatever.

Agree with Hammy about the great SS Elimination Match. That PPV, especially that match, has some great commentary by JR and Heyman. So much great banter and one-liners.

[Hammy]

Agree with Hammy about the great SS Elimination Match.

A 45 Minute scorcher.  That's probably the best "Traditional SS Match" of all time.  The tension between Jericho and The Rock, The Rock's exchanges with Steve Austin and Angle switching sides at the end, the match had it all.

And as for the WCW guys being jobbers for the most part, they were booked to appear like that so thats how people saw them.  DDP, WCW Main Eventer got crushed by 'Taker at every turn in their feud and after the "Invasion" he became a motivational speaker who told you, now thats not a bad thing, that's a good thing!  As funny as it was, it was very midcard and a long way removed from the guy he'd been in WCW.

Tag Team Champions O'Haire & Palumbo got squashed so often and mid Invasion storyline O'Haire was taken from television and sent to Development, heck half the WCW roster was, so much so in Development the storyline continued.

At the 1st PPV, Kanyon, Hugh Morrus and Shawn Stasiak took on Big Show, Billy Gunn and Intercontinental Champion Albert (That surprised me I'd forgotten he got a reign).

For the entire match the WWF Guys dominated until Morrus got a fluke pin on Gunn (it was a total fluke, obviously), then after the match Big Show crushed them all and they were all layed out, they were made to look like jobbers and you were in no doubt over who was really better, it was booked so badly, they were made to look like losers.  Those 3 guys had a lot of upside.

Another guy who had great potential was Lance Storm, intially he was treated quite well having an IC Title reign but most people remember him as the guy who caused Austin to fall asleep.

For the most part, even though Vince couldn't be motivated enough to buy out certain Time Warner contracts, the guys he did sign should be been pushed and treated better, there was still a wealth of talent there.

Touching on the Nitro on RAW stuff, it was lousy because it seemed so jobberish, the commentary team was horrendous.  People wanted Tony "This is the greatest night in the history of our sport" Schiavone, not Arn Anderson!

Oh and watching the APA today I thought it would have been cool if Faaroq had turned on Bradshaw, hit him with a Spinebuster and grabbed the mic and declared himself, Ron Simmons, a former WCW Heavyweight Champion dammit! 

[Izzy]

People have suggested Nitro was kept going - big no to that one, would have just been the brand extension a year earlier! Dear god!

Vince treated WCW stars as people who had betrayed him - though they'd never even met him before! Whole thing was about revenge. Jarrett was fired live on RAW

it was sad because it was always clear there were better angles, but the real problem was that WWF was set to burst with talent, it didn't need anyone else signed up

[Hammy]

Put simply it was potentially the biggest angle EVER, but Vince's EGO destroyed it.

If he bought TNA tomorrow he wouldn't treat it any better, heck he'd treat it worse because he doesn't consider them competition, they wouldn't even get a storyline.  He'd send most to development and release them before they made it to television.

[James Lofton]

He should of just Bought WCW and kept it running seperate instead of Raw and SD.

THIS is what should have happened. There should have been no "invasion" or any similar bullshit. NWA/WCW had such an amazing history that it should have been allowed to continue.


However, Vince had always wanted a monopoly on the industry, dating back to the early 80s when TBS pulled the plug on WWF and gave the slot to Georgia wrestling and then NWA. It still amazes me that Vince didn't buy it when Crockett sold it to Turner in 88.

When Vince bought WCW, he didn't give a **** about the promotion or the wrestlers. All he wanted was the rights to the name and its archives. Same with AWA and World Class. When the Texas Sportatorium(a wrestling landmark) was about to be demolished, did you see Vince jump in and buy it so he could turn it into a Von Erich/WCCW museum? No. Why? Because he doesn't give a ****. He had what he wanted......the name. Fans across Texas actually cried over this building's destruction. Vince didn't care. He owns the archives, and when these grieving fans need a World Class fix, he'll throw em a bone in the shape of a Von Erich DVD.


Vince Mcmahon buys the past so it cant be resurrected and the only present/future he cares about is WWE.

[More Cowbell]

I think to add on onto what Lofton was saying "Vince buys the past to seel the future" I think he buys the past and edits it to sell to the future in his view. The way he has WWE.com and DVDs edited and what not, the blurred out WWF, Editing of the Canadian we dont speak about. (I knwo he's a murder and we shouldn't celebrate him but its still part of his history that he was a world champion and it should be regonized. Heck OJ Simpson is a suspected murderer convicted in civil court but we didnt erase him from the history book. ) Heck He edits wrestling history to make i happen how he wanted it to happen. 

WCW in 2001 before selling out might have become a joke, But in the 80s and 90s it was a top notch league, Vince never would of did it fair justice, If someone asked me about the WCW Wrestlers that represented the true WCW I would think of, STING, Flair, Andersons, Rude, Magnum TA, The Hoursemen, Luger, You know the big guns, and they were either two old or not part of the invasion, it seemed like a jobber squad.

Then vince tossing the WCW belt on the Rock was just another vince idea, instead of letting it die/ retire on a true WCW Vet, Invasion angle I think could of only worked if it lead to WCW and WWF staying two seperate shows, I know it would of brought brand expansion a year earlier but I think he if actually let Shane run it seperate they could of continued on a great history built around HEELS, WCW was always built around heels dominating while WWF was all about the faces, A WWF owned,, SHane ran Vince Russo free WCW could of been a great compliment to Vince, but he just wanted to be king of the mountain.


IE Vince crowning himself ECW Champion. I seen Taz first hand defend that title and get bloodied up with barbed wire, KING OF THE MOUntain VINCE doesnt care about the **** fans, he is about money and hi ego.

[Izzy]

Maybe there is another side of the story here

In 2001 - WCW was dead, WWF was superb - did any of us in 2001 actually want WCW to continue?

The real issue is not that WCW went, but that Vince's mind went

[Hammy]

He should of just Bought WCW and kept it running seperate instead of Raw and SD.

THIS is what should have happened. There should have been no "invasion" or any similar bullshit. NWA/WCW had such an amazing history that it should have been allowed to continue.

There had to be some interaction, knowing both "Companies" were owned by Vince, the fans would have demanded certain "Dream Matches".

did any of us in 2001 actually want WCW to continue?

Then, no, I didn't much care.  At the time I was kind of gutted that the roster I loved and enjoyed might get bloated and filled with guys I didn't know or like and not having much access to it at the time I didn't have any emotional attachment to the product or the wrestlers.  Looking back now though with what I've seen I feel differently, I am attached to the product, although by the time I catch up to 2001 I might change my mind again 

[Izzy]

He should of just Bought WCW and kept it running seperate instead of Raw and SD.

THIS is what should have happened. There should have been no "invasion" or any similar bullshit. NWA/WCW had such an amazing history that it should have been allowed to continue.

There had to be some interaction, knowing both "Companies" were owned by Vince, the fans would have demanded certain "Dream Matches".

did any of us in 2001 actually want WCW to continue?

Then, no, I didn't much care.  At the time I was kind of gutted that the roster I loved and enjoyed might get bloated and filled with guys I didn't know or like and not having much access to it at the time I didn't have any emotional attachment to the product or the wrestlers.  Looking back now though with what I've seen I feel differently, I am attached to the product, although by the time I catch up to 2001 I might change my mind again 

Vince killed off WCW - in 2009 that was a mistake, but in 2001 it was probably the right thing to do - end the suffering, in the same way we'd all support ECW now being axed

Such is the nature of decisions - they can be right at that moment, but wrong years later...

[Hammy]

Even if the Ultimate Goal of the feud of 2001 was always going to be killing off the brand, they could have booked it a hell of a lot better, even the weakened roster they signed, had talent and crediblity but they were treated like jobbers from the outset and thats why fans lost interest, looking back, stars like DDP and Booker T, initially were over huge!

The worst thing of it, as mentioned, is if they'd of signed up the right people, and had put ego aside and booked the feud in a more balanced way, they had the material to have a great war/storyline that could have lasted for years, there was that much scope to it, and its that reason why most people highlight this as the most botched storyline of all time.  Some storylines stink and have no potential from the get go, this had it all.  For decades kids would wonder which promotion was better, who's stars were the best, what would happen if this and that dream match occured, etc. and so on.

[AtariLegend]

98 WCW had the roster is wrestling history...

The matches sucked, but that was just the booking.