Author Topic: Brand Split Discussion  (Read 550 times)

Offline D

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Brand Split Discussion
« on: February 25, 2010, 01:13:33 am »
WM season just proves how shitty brand split is and how awesome it would be again if they went back to how it was.

That essentially has killed wrestling. Shallow talent pool...... not enough stories to fill two different brands.
what was the yellow stuff on UT's face? where did he get burned? Looked like mustard from a hotdog or something.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 12:34:23 am by Hammy »
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Offline Yankee1012

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Brand Split Discussion
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2010, 12:16:54 am »
WM season just proves how shitty brand split is and how awesome it would be again if they went back to how it was.

That essentially has killed wrestling. Shallow talent pool...... not enough stories to fill two different brands.
what was the yellow stuff on UT's face? where did he get burned? Looked like mustard from a hotdog or something.

However the brand split allows guys like Ziggler, Swagger, Bourne etc.. to get a chance to be on TV.

There are positives and negatives to the split.

Offline D

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Brand Split Discussion
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2010, 01:35:17 am »
I don't agree with that at all

why do people assume those guys wouldn't get a shot?

If u are talented and great, u will get your shot.
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Offline BlowUpYourVideo

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Brand Split Discussion
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2010, 11:49:41 am »
I don't agree with that at all

why do people assume those guys wouldn't get a shot?

If u are talented and great, u will get your shot.

It would probably mean less of them would get a shot. There's a lot of main event level guys right now: Undertaker, Cena, HHH, Michaels, Orton, Edge, Batista, Mysterio, Jericho, Show, Sheamus..... And guys who are nearly there like Legacy, Morrison, Kingston etc. They'd all need to keep their current 'spots'.

It's hard to tell what it would be like without actually doing it. I only vaguely remember a time without the brand split....
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Offline Hammy

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Brand Split Discussion
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2010, 04:59:23 pm »
Could they end it without quite ending it though, in the sense some guys, just turn up where they want when they want.

For instance even with the split gone, because of his part time role HBK would only do RAW, I think with some thought, a balance could be found.

Offline Gnrfan

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Brand Split Discussion
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2010, 07:41:01 pm »
I think that the biggest problem with ending the brand split is making it so it doesn't feel like you are just rotating the world title.

With... Cena, HHH, HBK, Taker, Orton, Batista, Jericho, Edge, Rey Mysterio how could you occupy them all on the same brand without things getting stale?

You get Batista losing his feud with Cena... but then winning the next feud with HHH. You'd never get Batista losing two or three feuds in a row. Or you'd just get alot of draw feuds (one win each over two PPV's).

Im all for better programming.... but just ending the split doesn't guarentee better programming. I'd be happier to have a dominant brand. Have all the big names on RAW with say One Big name with alot of prospects. Let Morrsion, Kingston & Miz have World title runs and see what they can do even if its not on RAW.

Plus how could guys like Sheamus, Morrison, McIntrye, Kingston, Dibiase & Rhodes, Miz etc become main eventers? They would really struggle to dominate a brand with all those massive names.
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Offline Izzy

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Brand Split Discussion
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2010, 09:10:36 pm »
The misconception is that the big guys even need the belt

Look at the attitude era - how many title runs did Taker have, I'm struggling to think of even one...

Between Rock, Austin and HHH virtually no one else got a look in '99-'02

Still had huge stars and big names - the belt needs to be used when u havent got that fire in a feud

Triple H v Kurt Angle didnt need the belt - hell, throw in a woman and u have a far more convincing object to fight over anyway!
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Offline James Lofton

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Re: Brand Split Discussion
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2010, 06:19:01 am »
how could you occupy them all on the same brand without things getting stale?
Isn't the exact opposite true? A split makes things stale. If it was one brand, the possibilities become endless.

It was stupid when WCW had Nitro and Thunder, and even worse when Mcmahon did it because he did it when having a monopoly on the sport.

I do agree that it does not mean a better quality program. It would still have its faults, but you would have a wider variety of matches/feuds, and yes the roster would most certainly decrease.

LIke D said though, the cream rises to the top. In the early/mid 80s Crockett had a massive roster spanning the NWA territories. It probably played a role in the coming bankruptcy, but that's beside the point. NWA always had top notch feuds going, and when one got stale, they threw you for a loop and brought someone else in of equal stature. A perfect example of this is in the mid 80s when their tag team division was just loaded with legendary teams, but feuds were being recycled and they brought in Rude and him and Ragin Bull won the tag belts out of the blue, became much hated heels, and had a decent title run before it reverted back to the previous teams.


Quote
The misconception is that the big guys even need the belt
This is a really good point and its always overlooked. This goes back decades, probably before I even started watching in the early 80s. The greatest example of this is The Road Warriors. Considered by most to be the greatest tag team ever, but what few remember is the fact that during their prime after leaving AWA, they did NOT hold any tag titles, and there were two tag titles(World and National, and National changed to U.S. in 86) in the NWA at the time. Their two biggest feuds at the time(The Russians, The Midnight Express) did not result in any title changes, and both those teams lost the belts during that time frame, to other teams. Hell, their feud with Tully and Arn back in 87 didn't even result in a title change. Their first(and only) NWA tag title reign happened in 88, THREE years after joining NWA.

The point being, they were bigger than any title. Whether as heels or not, they were just so over with crowds in any federation that you could use your belts on other teams while still maintaining focus on them.

You could say the same for Flair and Hogan. during their prime, neither men needed those belts surgically attached to them, especially Hogan. Tons of talent got buried in WWF due to Hogan having the belt four years straight and also not allowing the IC title to rotate very often(only 3 IC champions during Hogan's 1st title reign).

Bundy could have been a monster heel for a lengthy period of time had Mcmahon allowed a title change. Instead, he loses at WMII and there's just nowhere else for the feud to go. Bundy drops way down the card before leaving a year or so later, and his career never recovered.

Savage should have had the belt not long after arriving at WWF. He won the IC title fairly quickly, but should have won the world title instead, either from Hogan or Bundy.

In 87 after the legendary Steamboat-Savage match, Steamboat should have immediately been given a title shot. His career hit the stratosphere at that point and Mcmahon should have pulled the trigger.

Keeping the belt on Hogan during this phase made it too stale and predictable. He didn't even need the belt. I guess it was a way of making Hulkamania invincible and Mcmahon probably didn't want to **** with the successful formula, but WWF would have been much better at the time with that belt changing hands several times. It really bogged down the PPVs and Saturday Night's Main Event because you knew that no matter who he faced, he wasn't losing.

People like Hogan, Flair, Triple H, Undertaker, Austin,etc. don't need a world title.

Wrestlers like King Kong Bundy, Nikita Koloff, Steamboat, Savage, Bret Hart, etc. do need it.
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Offline Gnrfan

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Re: Brand Split Discussion
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2010, 08:59:30 pm »
how could you occupy them all on the same brand without things getting stale?
Isn't the exact opposite true? A split makes things stale. If it was one brand, the possibilities become endless.

You see i think the split helps staleness. Coz you get loads of new faces and new prospects. Some are good and some are bad.

People say the cream rises to the top..... But yet everyone moans about Cena! I gather your point about top stars not needing world titles but then you kill the prestige of your belt your champion needs to be believable otherwise belts become useless.

I'd love to see the brand split end but from WWE's standpoint it makes more sense. They can get alot more talent on tv (and away from other companies) which is more likely to make them more stars. Lets face it without the brand split you wouldn't have Cena, Batista, Angle, Eddie who all thrived on the less crowded waters of brand split.

When i say stale i mean the rotation of the names would be Stale. Every PPV would have HHH, Taker, Edge, Jericho, Batista, Cena etc in the big matches and you could pretty much put the 5 biggest faces and the 5 biggest heels in a hat and pick them out.

One of the best thing about the split is that you get feuds like Ziggler/Rey or Kingston/Orton and it feels fresh coz Orton has been facing the "Big Names" for so long. The split certainly gives new talent a chance and if they ended it they would have to find a way to keep that going.

The other thing about ending the split guys like CM Punk/Miz would never get the amount of time on the mic because he would never have got to that level.

I'd love to see Raw at 3 hours with no brand split.... but still push guys like Ziggler, Miz, Morrison, McIntrye, Bourne... coz if they get lost in the shuffle then it would be the shame.

From a TV quality point of view ending the split makes sense but from running a international company it doesn't really unless their viewers start to leave.
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Offline Hammy

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Re: Brand Split Discussion
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2010, 04:39:15 pm »
People who think a lot of the guys getting pushed would get it without the split are kidding themselves, heck even with the split they struggle to push a lot of the right people, until a lot of the veterans retire, or are poached by TNA there is always going to be that issue.  Guys like Ziggler and Swagger have been struggling to keep their head above water on their respective brands, end the split and they are getting endeavoured....

Offline Izzy

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Re: Brand Split Discussion
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2010, 12:55:40 pm »
If WWE was to reduce the stupid promo rubbish and just have matches u could fit far more people on the card and still end the split

30 mins for ur promos, 90 mins for matches - hell, 9 10 min matches each edition would mean far more people getting screen time

WWE could half it's roster and with the rest have pure gold top to bottom

Make all the belts mean something then Cena v Batista for the US title would be believable and acceptable. If you have big guys go after 'smaller' titles it immedietly elevates them anyway

Bring in a ranking system in which each win gives points towards a title shot - every match then matters and it's easy for someone to be moved into the title scene or kept away
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Offline Gnrfan

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Re: Brand Split Discussion
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2010, 06:20:00 pm »
People who think a lot of the guys getting pushed would get it without the split are kidding themselves, heck even with the split they struggle to push a lot of the right people, until a lot of the veterans retire, or are poached by TNA there is always going to be that issue.  Guys like Ziggler and Swagger have been struggling to keep their head above water on their respective brands, end the split and they are getting endeavoured....

Exactly. Could not agree more. So you would get the same names at the top without much hope of them breaking through. Imagine if Lesnar or Angle was held back because of bigger names that would have been a shame.

Some people say they were so good they would have risen to the top, but knowing the wrestling business and backstage politics you just never know.

WWE do not want to create the situations where guys who could be potential stars jump ship to TNA. So despite the better program WWE could put on by ending it they would probally consider it to create more problems than it solves.

Why not have a 3 hour RAW every month and a 3 Hour SD every month where both can appear. That way it benefits both shows and you get two supershows a month.


Bring in a ranking system in which each win gives points towards a title shot - every match then matters and it's easy for someone to be moved into the title scene or kept away

Personally i dont see the point in that at all. Its not MMA and should not want to be anything like that.

Points will just confuse thiings and will take away from decent 1on1 feuds
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Offline Hammy

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Re: Brand Split Discussion
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2010, 06:45:25 pm »
A points system would require more logic than the wrestling business has ever had.

And agreed, losing talent would be bad (but good for competition too I suppose), just look at the loss of D'Angelo Dinero, he has risen to headline status in TNA, released simply because creative had nothing for him, despite his ability to wrestling a great match, cut a superb promo and heck he has the look, he is turning out to be one of the biggest mistakes/people they dropped the ball with.  Wrong section, but "Pope is Pimpin!"

Offline Gnrfan

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Re: Brand Split Discussion
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2010, 07:29:12 pm »
A points system would require more logic than the wrestling business has ever had.

And agreed, losing talent would be bad (but good for competition too I suppose), just look at the loss of D'Angelo Dinero, he has risen to headline status in TNA, released simply because creative had nothing for him, despite his ability to wrestling a great match, cut a superb promo and heck he has the look, he is turning out to be one of the biggest mistakes/people they dropped the ball with.  Wrong section, but "Pope is Pimpin!"

But what i mean is despite the advantage of better overall programming, there are so many business reasons that the split works and thats why i feel it will be around for a while yet
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Offline D

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Re: Brand Split Discussion
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2010, 12:56:46 am »
I think it makes guys work harder, wrestler better and become more creative


Think about some of the world champs.

Hulk Hogan,Stone Cold, The Rock, HHH, HBK, Undertaker, Sheamus


which one doesn't fit?

Guys like Sheamus and CM Punk should NEVER be the world heavyweight champion. u consider the fact, that Mr Perfect never held the world title or Roddy Piper but yet Sheamus and CM have?
just ridiculous.
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